JAVA will be licensed from 2019

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JAVA will be licensed from 2019

Vadhiraj
As per below link JAVA will b e licensed starting from 2019.   Will ActiveMQ
remove  dependancy on JAVA or ACtivemq will buy license for JAVA or ActiveMQ
user should buy license

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/eol-135779.html



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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

Jiri Danek
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:36 AM Vadhiraj <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> As per below link JAVA will b e licensed starting from 2019.   Will
> ActiveMQ
> remove  dependancy on JAVA or ACtivemq will buy license for JAVA or
> ActiveMQ
> user should buy license
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/eol-135779.html


Oracle is not the only Java vendor in the world. Java is bigger than one
company and even if Oracle disappeared tomorrow, there will be demand and
supply of Java maintenance releases from the other vendors.

OpenJDK is free and will be free. That means that Linux users will not be
affected (distribution maintainers will build OpenJDK packages and ship
them in the distro). For example, CentOS/RHEL will offer LTS support for
OpenJDK, on par with what we saw with JDK 6/8, on the order of 6 years
after initial release.

On Windows and MacOS, unless you can/want to depend on personal-use
OracleJDK, the situation is somewhat more dire. I am personally hoping that
the Red Hat Windows build of OpenJDK
https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/download/ may become freely
available (without the development-only condition, without support) and
fill the space. Then there is https://adoptopenjdk.net build, and
https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/. Not sure about IBM Java, what the
terms and conditions are there.
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards
Jiri Daněk
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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

Tim Bain
There are Windows and MacOS builds of the OpenJDK alongside the Linux one
at http://jdk.java.net/10/. What am I missing that makes for a dire
situation on Windows?

Tim

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 5:20 AM Jiri Daněk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:36 AM Vadhiraj <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > As per below link JAVA will b e licensed starting from 2019.   Will
> > ActiveMQ
> > remove  dependancy on JAVA or ACtivemq will buy license for JAVA or
> > ActiveMQ
> > user should buy license
> >
> > http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/eol-135779.html
>
>
> Oracle is not the only Java vendor in the world. Java is bigger than one
> company and even if Oracle disappeared tomorrow, there will be demand and
> supply of Java maintenance releases from the other vendors.
>
> OpenJDK is free and will be free. That means that Linux users will not be
> affected (distribution maintainers will build OpenJDK packages and ship
> them in the distro). For example, CentOS/RHEL will offer LTS support for
> OpenJDK, on par with what we saw with JDK 6/8, on the order of 6 years
> after initial release.
>
> On Windows and MacOS, unless you can/want to depend on personal-use
> OracleJDK, the situation is somewhat more dire. I am personally hoping that
> the Red Hat Windows build of OpenJDK
> https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/download/ may become freely
> available (without the development-only condition, without support) and
> fill the space. Then there is https://adoptopenjdk.net build, and
> https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/. Not sure about IBM Java, what the
> terms and conditions are there.
> --
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards
> Jiri Daněk
>
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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

Jiri Danek
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 2:30 PM Tim Bain <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are Windows and MacOS builds of the OpenJDK alongside the Linux one
> at http://jdk.java.net/10/. What am I missing that makes for a dire
> situation on Windows?
>

That you cannot download patched OpenJDK 9 or 8 builds from the site, as I
understand it. Only the build of latest version of java will be made
available, for 6 months, and then everybody depending on builds from the
upstream directly would have to upgrade.
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards
Jiri Daněk
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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

alain rastoul
Hi,

As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) this is not a about a specific
platform (windows) JDK, but a change between Oracle and OpenJDK
relationship.
OpenJDK will not benefit from all Oracle improvments/corrections,
Oracle will give back it's source code for new JDK version to OpenJDK
every 6 month, just for the new versions, not it's bug fixes/patches or
whatever is in it's "LTS" version code,

So there will be only Oracle's JDK LTS (not free), or new OpenJDK
release every 6 month for windows, linux & mac.
No OpenJDK LTS with security patches, unless someone else do the LTS
patch/bug fixes work.

"For the first 6 months of Java 11’s life, Oracle will be providing
GPL+CE licensed $free zero-cost downloads at jdk.java.net with security
patches. To get GPL+CE licensed $free zero-cost update releases of Java
11 after the first six months, you are likely to need to obtain them
from a different URL and a different build team."
from
https://jaxenter.com/oracle-jdk-builds-openjdk-builds-difference-149318.html 


"Developers want to move fast and enterprises want stability"
https://mreinhold.org/blog/forward-faster

...


bests,

Alain


On 14/09/2018 14:47, Jiri Daněk wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 2:30 PM Tim Bain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> There are Windows and MacOS builds of the OpenJDK alongside the Linux one
>> at http://jdk.java.net/10/. What am I missing that makes for a dire
>> situation on Windows?
>>
> That you cannot download patched OpenJDK 9 or 8 builds from the site, as I
> understand it. Only the build of latest version of java will be made
> available, for 6 months, and then everybody depending on builds from the
> upstream directly would have to upgrade.

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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

Jiri Danek
On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:56 AM alain rastoul <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) this is not a about a specific
> platform (windows) JDK, but a change between Oracle and OpenJDK
> relationship.
>

Yes.


> OpenJDK will not benefit from all Oracle improvments/corrections,
> Oracle will give back it's source code for new JDK version to OpenJDK
> every 6 month, just for the new versions, not it's bug fixes/patches or
> whatever is in it's "LTS" version code,
>

No, as the quoted text later in your e-mail suggests, Oracle will be an
active contributor to OpenJDK project and all their fixes will go to the
latest released OpenJDK version. It will not be a source dump every 6
months. It will be a steady stream of commits.

That means, Oracle employees will be committing their fixes into OpenJDK
master/devel branch (whatever the convention is), but they will not be
backporting the fixes for older OpenJDK releases as you said (well, they
will, internally, but they will not publish the result into any OpenJDK
"maintenance" branches.). That's where linux distros and other maintainers
I mentioned in my previous e-mail have to step in. I only mentioned Windows
because for Linux, we have all those distros (like CentOS, maybe Ubuntu...)
that will step up here. It is not clear who will maintain WIndows LTS build
and MacOS LTS build of OpenJDK.

So there will be only Oracle's JDK LTS (not free), or new OpenJDK
> release every 6 month for windows, linux & mac.
>

Plus OpenJDK patch releases in the 6 month period, of course.


> No OpenJDK LTS with security patches, unless someone else do the LTS
> patch/bug fixes work.
>
> "For the first 6 months of Java 11’s life, Oracle will be providing
> GPL+CE licensed $free zero-cost downloads at jdk.java.net with security
> patches. To get GPL+CE licensed $free zero-cost update releases of Java
> 11 after the first six months, you are likely to need to obtain them
> from a different URL and a different build team."
> from
>
> https://jaxenter.com/oracle-jdk-builds-openjdk-builds-difference-149318.html
>

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards
Jiri Daněk
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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

alain rastoul
Thank you for your comments and answers.

Yes, I understood that oracle would commit to latest openjdk, and as 
said by mark reinhold in "who is in charge" talk, that they 'want java
to be around  in 2030' :)
but as you said too, they will not commit to any maintenance branch, and
that is the point: backports and LTS.

I maintain legacy software and could not update my application every 6
months with a new major java version : ok for my code, but I don't know
about glassfish?, spring? other libraries I use like mongo client, sql
jdbc driver? then update old production servers hell ... no way
with the same major java version it is ok once a year if necessary for
patches of course. Nothing exceptional.

After digging a bit, I found a medium post with mention of a twitter
message  talking specifically  about LTS release provisioning  by
adoptjdk (the link you gave).
https://medium.com/codefx-weekly/no-free-java-lts-version-b850192745fb

I did not see it first time but in the adoptopenjdk/support/roadmap
section there is a clear mention of LTS release supported for 4 years.
https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
The bug fixes backport is not very detailed but there is a clear message
of intention. Let's see how it works.
As you said this is where maintainers have to step in.
This adoptopenjdk initiative is really nice.



bests,

Alain
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Re: JAVA will be licensed from 2019

Tim Bain
I'm in no way trying to cut off this discussion (I'm learning things, so
thanks to those who are sharing knowledge), but I do want to make sure we
answer the OP's question.

ActiveMQ does not distribute the JVM, nor require a user to use any
particular JVM. The pre-requisites for installation (
http://activemq.apache.org/getting-started.html#GettingStarted-Pre-InstallationRequirements)
say that a JVM is required to be installed prior to installing ActiveMQ,
which means that the choice of JVM, and of support options for that JVM, is
still entirely the right, and the responsibility, of the user. So
until/unless ActiveMQ changes our packaging approach and begins bundling
the JVM, ActiveMQ will not change in response to this change by Oracle.

Having addressed that we can go back to discussing the maintenance
lifestyle and options for the JVM, independent of ActiveMQ itself.

Tim

On Sep 16, 2018 4:11 PM, "Alain Rastoul" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you for your comments and answers.

Yes, I understood that oracle would commit to latest openjdk, and as
said by mark reinhold in "who is in charge" talk, that they 'want java
to be around  in 2030' :)
but as you said too, they will not commit to any maintenance branch, and
that is the point: backports and LTS.

I maintain legacy software and could not update my application every 6
months with a new major java version : ok for my code, but I don't know
about glassfish?, spring? other libraries I use like mongo client, sql
jdbc driver? then update old production servers hell ... no way
with the same major java version it is ok once a year if necessary for
patches of course. Nothing exceptional.

After digging a bit, I found a medium post with mention of a twitter
message  talking specifically  about LTS release provisioning  by
adoptjdk (the link you gave).
https://medium.com/codefx-weekly/no-free-java-lts-version-b850192745fb

I did not see it first time but in the adoptopenjdk/support/roadmap
section there is a clear mention of LTS release supported for 4 years.
https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
The bug fixes backport is not very detailed but there is a clear message
of intention. Let's see how it works.
As you said this is where maintainers have to step in.
This adoptopenjdk initiative is really nice.



bests,

Alain