[DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

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[DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

dpauls
Hello,

I'm relatively new to the ActiveMQ community, but I've been watching this
list for the last little while and would like to propose some rework to the
NMS.AMQP API.

I'm interested in any feedback you folks may have.  Thanks in advance!



NMS.AMQP REWORK PROPOSAL


Abstract

A pure .NET implementation of NMS[1] using the AMQP .NET Lite API[2].


Proposal

This proposal is to rework the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP codebase in order to
achieve:
1. A pure .NET implementation of the NMS API using the AMQP 1.0[3]
wireline protocol as a transport. To do this, the AMQP .NET Lite API
will be used.
2. Interoperability with other APIs following the AMQP JMS Mapping
Specification[4], namely Qpid JMS[5].
3. Interoperability via AMQP 1.0 brokers such as ActiveMQ[6], the Qpid
C++ broker[7], and the Qpid broker for Java[8].

While we would be open to alternate approaches, we propose starting work
on a development branch within the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP repository[9], then
replace the contents of the trunk with the branch when the branch has
reached an appropriate level of maturity.

There are two major components changing:
1. The underlying transport API providing AMQP capabilities.
2. The mapping between the NMS API and the underlying AMQP API.

Therefore, there is little of the existing implementation that could be
reused. Hence the proposal is replace the implementation rather than
refactor it.


Background

AMQP 1.0[3] is a standard wireline protocol. There are already open
source APIs that expose native AMQP 1.0 concepts directly:
1. Apache Qpid Proton[10], which is available for a number of different
languages.
2. AMQP .Net Lite[2], which is a pure .NET API implementation. AMQP .Net
Lite is not an Apache project, but it is licensed under the Apache 2.0
license.

There are also open source APIs that implement other messaging APIs, and
map the APIs concepts to the AMQP 1.0 protocol. Examples of such APIs
are:
1. Apache Qpid JMS[5], a JMS implementation that follows the AMQP JMS
Mapping Specification[4].
2. The existing Apache ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP[9], an NMS implementation using
.NET-wrapped native code, and using a different API to protocol mapping
than Qpid JMS.


Rationale

AMQP 1.0[3] is an attractive technology choice for deploying middleware
solutions. As a standardized protocol, it offers operational flexibility
for middleware solutions. For example, if it is desired change the AMQP
1.0 provider, this is much more readily achieved with minimal impact to
applications compared to changing a provider when applications use a
vendor-specific API and/or protocol.

Many software architects and developers are familiar with topic and
queue based messaging. The prevalence of Message Oriented Middleware
offerings such as IBM MQ, Amazon Simple Queue Service, and JMS
demonstrate this. In addition, .NET is a very popular software
framework. However, AMQP 1.0 is a relative newcomer to the middleware
marketspace. A vibrant ecosystem of open source APIs is seen as a vital
component to the future success of the technology.

Therefore, an NMS API using AMQP 1.0 is an important piece of the AMQP
1.0 ecosystem. Implementing pure .NET libraries will make it easier to
deploy solutions. By using a standardized API to protocol mapping,
greater interoperability will be achieved. Overall, this project seeks
to make AMQP 1.0 more accessible to architects and developers. This API
complements rather than competes with APIs such as Qpid Proton and AMQP
.NET Lite, both excellent options for those wishing to embrace AMQP 1.0
messaging paradigm directly.


External Dependencies

There are two external dependencies for this project:
1. NMS[1], an Apache project.
2. AMQP .NET Lite[2], an open source project licensed under the Apache
2.0 license.

Since both dependencies use an Apache license, there are no issues with
respect to the licensing of the project's dependencies.


References

[1] Apache ActiveMQ NMS API: http://activemq.apache.org/nms/
[2] AMQP .NET Lite API: https://github.com/Azure/amqpnetlite/
[3] AMQP Version 1.0:
  http://docs.oasis-open.org/amqp/core/v1.0/amqp-core-complete-v1.0.pdf
[4] AMQP JMS Mapping Version 1.0:
  https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/56418/
[5] Apache Qpid JMS: https://qpid.apache.org/components/jms/
[6] Apache ActiveMQ: http://activemq.apache.org/
[7] Apache Qpid C++ Broker:
  http://qpid.apache.org/components/cpp-broker/index.html
[8] Apache Qpid Broker for Java:
  http://qpid.apache.org/components/java-broker/index.html
[9] Existing Apache NMS.AMQP Repository:
  http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/
[10] Apache Qpid Proton: http://qpid.apache.org/proton/



Cheers,
Duane
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
wow.. IMHO it sounds an awesome idea...


you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.


I have been doing some work around AMQP on Artemis, and I also wrote a
blog on how to use the AMQP lite:
https://blogs.apache.org/activemq/entry/using-net-libraries-with-activemq


Using the NMS seems like a great Idea, as it would represent an
independent layer, like JMS is now, and it could make migration from
OpenWire .NET clients into AMQP an easy transition?


Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
any ideas for the initial implementation already?



I"m not sure where is the current repo for NMS. Maybe still in SVN? I
couldn't find a git repo for it yet. If that's the case the first step
would be to translate it into a git repo. We could start with pull
requests.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm relatively new to the ActiveMQ community, but I've been watching this
> list for the last little while and would like to propose some rework to the
> NMS.AMQP API.
>
> I'm interested in any feedback you folks may have.  Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> NMS.AMQP REWORK PROPOSAL
>
>
> Abstract
>
> A pure .NET implementation of NMS[1] using the AMQP .NET Lite API[2].
>
>
> Proposal
>
> This proposal is to rework the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP codebase in order to
> achieve:
> 1. A pure .NET implementation of the NMS API using the AMQP 1.0[3]
> wireline protocol as a transport. To do this, the AMQP .NET Lite API
> will be used.
> 2. Interoperability with other APIs following the AMQP JMS Mapping
> Specification[4], namely Qpid JMS[5].
> 3. Interoperability via AMQP 1.0 brokers such as ActiveMQ[6], the Qpid
> C++ broker[7], and the Qpid broker for Java[8].
>
> While we would be open to alternate approaches, we propose starting work
> on a development branch within the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP repository[9], then
> replace the contents of the trunk with the branch when the branch has
> reached an appropriate level of maturity.
>
> There are two major components changing:
> 1. The underlying transport API providing AMQP capabilities.
> 2. The mapping between the NMS API and the underlying AMQP API.
>
> Therefore, there is little of the existing implementation that could be
> reused. Hence the proposal is replace the implementation rather than
> refactor it.
>
>
> Background
>
> AMQP 1.0[3] is a standard wireline protocol. There are already open
> source APIs that expose native AMQP 1.0 concepts directly:
> 1. Apache Qpid Proton[10], which is available for a number of different
> languages.
> 2. AMQP .Net Lite[2], which is a pure .NET API implementation. AMQP .Net
> Lite is not an Apache project, but it is licensed under the Apache 2.0
> license.
>
> There are also open source APIs that implement other messaging APIs, and
> map the APIs concepts to the AMQP 1.0 protocol. Examples of such APIs
> are:
> 1. Apache Qpid JMS[5], a JMS implementation that follows the AMQP JMS
> Mapping Specification[4].
> 2. The existing Apache ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP[9], an NMS implementation using
> .NET-wrapped native code, and using a different API to protocol mapping
> than Qpid JMS.
>
>
> Rationale
>
> AMQP 1.0[3] is an attractive technology choice for deploying middleware
> solutions. As a standardized protocol, it offers operational flexibility
> for middleware solutions. For example, if it is desired change the AMQP
> 1.0 provider, this is much more readily achieved with minimal impact to
> applications compared to changing a provider when applications use a
> vendor-specific API and/or protocol.
>
> Many software architects and developers are familiar with topic and
> queue based messaging. The prevalence of Message Oriented Middleware
> offerings such as IBM MQ, Amazon Simple Queue Service, and JMS
> demonstrate this. In addition, .NET is a very popular software
> framework. However, AMQP 1.0 is a relative newcomer to the middleware
> marketspace. A vibrant ecosystem of open source APIs is seen as a vital
> component to the future success of the technology.
>
> Therefore, an NMS API using AMQP 1.0 is an important piece of the AMQP
> 1.0 ecosystem. Implementing pure .NET libraries will make it easier to
> deploy solutions. By using a standardized API to protocol mapping,
> greater interoperability will be achieved. Overall, this project seeks
> to make AMQP 1.0 more accessible to architects and developers. This API
> complements rather than competes with APIs such as Qpid Proton and AMQP
> .NET Lite, both excellent options for those wishing to embrace AMQP 1.0
> messaging paradigm directly.
>
>
> External Dependencies
>
> There are two external dependencies for this project:
> 1. NMS[1], an Apache project.
> 2. AMQP .NET Lite[2], an open source project licensed under the Apache
> 2.0 license.
>
> Since both dependencies use an Apache license, there are no issues with
> respect to the licensing of the project's dependencies.
>
>
> References
>
> [1] Apache ActiveMQ NMS API: http://activemq.apache.org/nms/
> [2] AMQP .NET Lite API: https://github.com/Azure/amqpnetlite/
> [3] AMQP Version 1.0:
>   http://docs.oasis-open.org/amqp/core/v1.0/amqp-core-complete-v1.0.pdf
> [4] AMQP JMS Mapping Version 1.0:
>   https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/56418/
> [5] Apache Qpid JMS: https://qpid.apache.org/components/jms/
> [6] Apache ActiveMQ: http://activemq.apache.org/
> [7] Apache Qpid C++ Broker:
>   http://qpid.apache.org/components/cpp-broker/index.html
> [8] Apache Qpid Broker for Java:
>   http://qpid.apache.org/components/java-broker/index.html
> [9] Existing Apache NMS.AMQP Repository:
>   http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/
> [10] Apache Qpid Proton: http://qpid.apache.org/proton/
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Duane



--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

Jim Gomes
Hi Duane,

Thank you very much for this proposal.  I think it sounds great.  The
current NMS.AMQP is just a wrapper around another library.  If we could
have a full native implementation of the NMS API using AMQP, that would be
much better.

As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.

The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository URL:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk.
It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP provider
implementation.

Please let me know how I can help with this effort.

Best,
Jim


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:53 PM Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> wow.. IMHO it sounds an awesome idea...
>
>
> you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>
>
> I have been doing some work around AMQP on Artemis, and I also wrote a
> blog on how to use the AMQP lite:
> https://blogs.apache.org/activemq/entry/using-net-libraries-with-activemq
>
>
> Using the NMS seems like a great Idea, as it would represent an
> independent layer, like JMS is now, and it could make migration from
> OpenWire .NET clients into AMQP an easy transition?
>
>
> Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
> any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>
>
>
> I"m not sure where is the current repo for NMS. Maybe still in SVN? I
> couldn't find a git repo for it yet. If that's the case the first step
> would be to translate it into a git repo. We could start with pull
> requests.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm relatively new to the ActiveMQ community, but I've been watching this
> > list for the last little while and would like to propose some rework to
> the
> > NMS.AMQP API.
> >
> > I'm interested in any feedback you folks may have.  Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> >
> > NMS.AMQP REWORK PROPOSAL
> >
> >
> > Abstract
> >
> > A pure .NET implementation of NMS[1] using the AMQP .NET Lite API[2].
> >
> >
> > Proposal
> >
> > This proposal is to rework the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP codebase in order to
> > achieve:
> > 1. A pure .NET implementation of the NMS API using the AMQP 1.0[3]
> > wireline protocol as a transport. To do this, the AMQP .NET Lite API
> > will be used.
> > 2. Interoperability with other APIs following the AMQP JMS Mapping
> > Specification[4], namely Qpid JMS[5].
> > 3. Interoperability via AMQP 1.0 brokers such as ActiveMQ[6], the Qpid
> > C++ broker[7], and the Qpid broker for Java[8].
> >
> > While we would be open to alternate approaches, we propose starting work
> > on a development branch within the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP repository[9], then
> > replace the contents of the trunk with the branch when the branch has
> > reached an appropriate level of maturity.
> >
> > There are two major components changing:
> > 1. The underlying transport API providing AMQP capabilities.
> > 2. The mapping between the NMS API and the underlying AMQP API.
> >
> > Therefore, there is little of the existing implementation that could be
> > reused. Hence the proposal is replace the implementation rather than
> > refactor it.
> >
> >
> > Background
> >
> > AMQP 1.0[3] is a standard wireline protocol. There are already open
> > source APIs that expose native AMQP 1.0 concepts directly:
> > 1. Apache Qpid Proton[10], which is available for a number of different
> > languages.
> > 2. AMQP .Net Lite[2], which is a pure .NET API implementation. AMQP .Net
> > Lite is not an Apache project, but it is licensed under the Apache 2.0
> > license.
> >
> > There are also open source APIs that implement other messaging APIs, and
> > map the APIs concepts to the AMQP 1.0 protocol. Examples of such APIs
> > are:
> > 1. Apache Qpid JMS[5], a JMS implementation that follows the AMQP JMS
> > Mapping Specification[4].
> > 2. The existing Apache ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP[9], an NMS implementation using
> > .NET-wrapped native code, and using a different API to protocol mapping
> > than Qpid JMS.
> >
> >
> > Rationale
> >
> > AMQP 1.0[3] is an attractive technology choice for deploying middleware
> > solutions. As a standardized protocol, it offers operational flexibility
> > for middleware solutions. For example, if it is desired change the AMQP
> > 1.0 provider, this is much more readily achieved with minimal impact to
> > applications compared to changing a provider when applications use a
> > vendor-specific API and/or protocol.
> >
> > Many software architects and developers are familiar with topic and
> > queue based messaging. The prevalence of Message Oriented Middleware
> > offerings such as IBM MQ, Amazon Simple Queue Service, and JMS
> > demonstrate this. In addition, .NET is a very popular software
> > framework. However, AMQP 1.0 is a relative newcomer to the middleware
> > marketspace. A vibrant ecosystem of open source APIs is seen as a vital
> > component to the future success of the technology.
> >
> > Therefore, an NMS API using AMQP 1.0 is an important piece of the AMQP
> > 1.0 ecosystem. Implementing pure .NET libraries will make it easier to
> > deploy solutions. By using a standardized API to protocol mapping,
> > greater interoperability will be achieved. Overall, this project seeks
> > to make AMQP 1.0 more accessible to architects and developers. This API
> > complements rather than competes with APIs such as Qpid Proton and AMQP
> > .NET Lite, both excellent options for those wishing to embrace AMQP 1.0
> > messaging paradigm directly.
> >
> >
> > External Dependencies
> >
> > There are two external dependencies for this project:
> > 1. NMS[1], an Apache project.
> > 2. AMQP .NET Lite[2], an open source project licensed under the Apache
> > 2.0 license.
> >
> > Since both dependencies use an Apache license, there are no issues with
> > respect to the licensing of the project's dependencies.
> >
> >
> > References
> >
> > [1] Apache ActiveMQ NMS API: http://activemq.apache.org/nms/
> > [2] AMQP .NET Lite API: https://github.com/Azure/amqpnetlite/
> > [3] AMQP Version 1.0:
> >   http://docs.oasis-open.org/amqp/core/v1.0/amqp-core-complete-v1.0.pdf
> > [4] AMQP JMS Mapping Version 1.0:
> >   https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/56418/
> > [5] Apache Qpid JMS: https://qpid.apache.org/components/jms/
> > [6] Apache ActiveMQ: http://activemq.apache.org/
> > [7] Apache Qpid C++ Broker:
> >   http://qpid.apache.org/components/cpp-broker/index.html
> > [8] Apache Qpid Broker for Java:
> >   http://qpid.apache.org/components/java-broker/index.html
> > [9] Existing Apache NMS.AMQP Repository:
> >   http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/
> > [10] Apache Qpid Proton: http://qpid.apache.org/proton/
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Duane
>
>
>
> --
> Clebert Suconic
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Duane,
>
> Thank you very much for this proposal.  I think it sounds great.  The
> current NMS.AMQP is just a wrapper around another library.  If we could
> have a full native implementation of the NMS API using AMQP, that would be
> much better.
>
> As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
> review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
> re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>
> The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository URL:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
> .
> It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP provider
> implementation.
>


It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
start with contributions.



> Please let me know how I can help with this effort.
>
> Best,
> Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:53 PM Clebert Suconic <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > wow.. IMHO it sounds an awesome idea...
> >
> >
> > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
> >
> >
> > I have been doing some work around AMQP on Artemis, and I also wrote a
> > blog on how to use the AMQP lite:
> >
> https://blogs.apache.org/activemq/entry/using-net-libraries-with-activemq
> >
> >
> > Using the NMS seems like a great Idea, as it would represent an
> > independent layer, like JMS is now, and it could make migration from
> > OpenWire .NET clients into AMQP an easy transition?
> >
> >
> > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
> > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
> >
> >
> >
> > I"m not sure where is the current repo for NMS. Maybe still in SVN? I
> > couldn't find a git repo for it yet. If that's the case the first step
> > would be to translate it into a git repo. We could start with pull
> > requests.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm relatively new to the ActiveMQ community, but I've been watching
> this
> > > list for the last little while and would like to propose some rework to
> > the
> > > NMS.AMQP API.
> > >
> > > I'm interested in any feedback you folks may have.  Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > NMS.AMQP REWORK PROPOSAL
> > >
> > >
> > > Abstract
> > >
> > > A pure .NET implementation of NMS[1] using the AMQP .NET Lite API[2].
> > >
> > >
> > > Proposal
> > >
> > > This proposal is to rework the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP codebase in order to
> > > achieve:
> > > 1. A pure .NET implementation of the NMS API using the AMQP 1.0[3]
> > > wireline protocol as a transport. To do this, the AMQP .NET Lite API
> > > will be used.
> > > 2. Interoperability with other APIs following the AMQP JMS Mapping
> > > Specification[4], namely Qpid JMS[5].
> > > 3. Interoperability via AMQP 1.0 brokers such as ActiveMQ[6], the Qpid
> > > C++ broker[7], and the Qpid broker for Java[8].
> > >
> > > While we would be open to alternate approaches, we propose starting
> work
> > > on a development branch within the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP repository[9],
> then
> > > replace the contents of the trunk with the branch when the branch has
> > > reached an appropriate level of maturity.
> > >
> > > There are two major components changing:
> > > 1. The underlying transport API providing AMQP capabilities.
> > > 2. The mapping between the NMS API and the underlying AMQP API.
> > >
> > > Therefore, there is little of the existing implementation that could be
> > > reused. Hence the proposal is replace the implementation rather than
> > > refactor it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Background
> > >
> > > AMQP 1.0[3] is a standard wireline protocol. There are already open
> > > source APIs that expose native AMQP 1.0 concepts directly:
> > > 1. Apache Qpid Proton[10], which is available for a number of different
> > > languages.
> > > 2. AMQP .Net Lite[2], which is a pure .NET API implementation. AMQP
> .Net
> > > Lite is not an Apache project, but it is licensed under the Apache 2.0
> > > license.
> > >
> > > There are also open source APIs that implement other messaging APIs,
> and
> > > map the APIs concepts to the AMQP 1.0 protocol. Examples of such APIs
> > > are:
> > > 1. Apache Qpid JMS[5], a JMS implementation that follows the AMQP JMS
> > > Mapping Specification[4].
> > > 2. The existing Apache ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP[9], an NMS implementation
> using
> > > .NET-wrapped native code, and using a different API to protocol mapping
> > > than Qpid JMS.
> > >
> > >
> > > Rationale
> > >
> > > AMQP 1.0[3] is an attractive technology choice for deploying middleware
> > > solutions. As a standardized protocol, it offers operational
> flexibility
> > > for middleware solutions. For example, if it is desired change the AMQP
> > > 1.0 provider, this is much more readily achieved with minimal impact to
> > > applications compared to changing a provider when applications use a
> > > vendor-specific API and/or protocol.
> > >
> > > Many software architects and developers are familiar with topic and
> > > queue based messaging. The prevalence of Message Oriented Middleware
> > > offerings such as IBM MQ, Amazon Simple Queue Service, and JMS
> > > demonstrate this. In addition, .NET is a very popular software
> > > framework. However, AMQP 1.0 is a relative newcomer to the middleware
> > > marketspace. A vibrant ecosystem of open source APIs is seen as a vital
> > > component to the future success of the technology.
> > >
> > > Therefore, an NMS API using AMQP 1.0 is an important piece of the AMQP
> > > 1.0 ecosystem. Implementing pure .NET libraries will make it easier to
> > > deploy solutions. By using a standardized API to protocol mapping,
> > > greater interoperability will be achieved. Overall, this project seeks
> > > to make AMQP 1.0 more accessible to architects and developers. This API
> > > complements rather than competes with APIs such as Qpid Proton and AMQP
> > > .NET Lite, both excellent options for those wishing to embrace AMQP 1.0
> > > messaging paradigm directly.
> > >
> > >
> > > External Dependencies
> > >
> > > There are two external dependencies for this project:
> > > 1. NMS[1], an Apache project.
> > > 2. AMQP .NET Lite[2], an open source project licensed under the Apache
> > > 2.0 license.
> > >
> > > Since both dependencies use an Apache license, there are no issues with
> > > respect to the licensing of the project's dependencies.
> > >
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > [1] Apache ActiveMQ NMS API: http://activemq.apache.org/nms/
> > > [2] AMQP .NET Lite API: https://github.com/Azure/amqpnetlite/
> > > [3] AMQP Version 1.0:
> > >
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/amqp/core/v1.0/amqp-core-complete-v1.0.pdf
> > > [4] AMQP JMS Mapping Version 1.0:
> > >   https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/56418/
> > > [5] Apache Qpid JMS: https://qpid.apache.org/components/jms/
> > > [6] Apache ActiveMQ: http://activemq.apache.org/
> > > [7] Apache Qpid C++ Broker:
> > >   http://qpid.apache.org/components/cpp-broker/index.html
> > > [8] Apache Qpid Broker for Java:
> > >   http://qpid.apache.org/components/java-broker/index.html
> > > [9] Existing Apache NMS.AMQP Repository:
> > >
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/
> > > [10] Apache Qpid Proton: http://qpid.apache.org/proton/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Duane
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Clebert Suconic
> >
>
--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

dpauls
Thanks for the feedback.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
> > review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
> > re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>

Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
instructions)?



> >
> > The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository
> URL:
> >
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
> > .
> > It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
> provider
> > implementation.
> >
>
>
> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
> start with contributions.


From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.



> > > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>

I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.



> > > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
> > > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>

One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at this
stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.


Cheers,
Duane
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
how I would do regarding legal:


i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL


And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
referencing the JIRA.


Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
source of the project.


I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
with that discussion.





I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
community).

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
>> > review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
>> > re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>>
>
> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
> instructions)?
>
>
>
>> >
>> > The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository
>> URL:
>> >
>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
>> > .
>> > It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
>> provider
>> > implementation.
>> >
>>
>>
>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
>> start with contributions.
>
>
> From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
>
>
>
>> > > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>
>
> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
>
>
>
>> > > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
>> > > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>>
>
> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at this
> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Duane



--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
of course I mistyped git as github on my previous message.


apache git projects are mirrored on github, but the main repo is
always the apache one. Just as a reference to make sure my typo won't
confuse you.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Clebert Suconic
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> how I would do regarding legal:
>
>
> i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>
>
> And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
> referencing the JIRA.
>
>
> Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
> source of the project.
>
>
> I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
> with that discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
> I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
> seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
> even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
> community).
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> > As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
>>> > review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
>>> > re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>>>
>>
>> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
>> instructions)?
>>
>>
>>
>>> >
>>> > The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository
>>> URL:
>>> >
>>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
>>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
>>> > .
>>> > It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
>>> provider
>>> > implementation.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
>>> start with contributions.
>>
>>
>> From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
>> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>
>>
>> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
>>> > > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>>>
>>
>> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at this
>> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Duane
>
>
>
> --
> Clebert Suconic



--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
In reply to this post by clebertsuconic
This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal


but I think just the JIRA should be enough.


Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Clebert Suconic
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> how I would do regarding legal:
>
>
> i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>
>
> And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
> referencing the JIRA.
>
>
> Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
> source of the project.
>
>
> I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
> with that discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
> I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
> seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
> even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
> community).
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> > As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
>>> > review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
>>> > re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>>>
>>
>> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
>> instructions)?
>>
>>
>>
>>> >
>>> > The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository
>>> URL:
>>> >
>>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
>>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
>>> > .
>>> > It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
>>> provider
>>> > implementation.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
>>> start with contributions.
>>
>>
>> From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
>> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>
>>
>> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
>>> > > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>>>
>>
>> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at this
>> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Duane
>
>
>
> --
> Clebert Suconic



--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
would anyone object if I open a request on Infra to convert it to git?


Also: since Duane will start as a contributor, and it is expected to
send a considerable amount of contributions, should him sign up the
contributors agreement?

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Clebert Suconic
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
>
>
> but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
>
>
> Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
> more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Clebert Suconic
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> how I would do regarding legal:
>>
>>
>> i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>>
>>
>> And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
>> referencing the JIRA.
>>
>>
>> Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
>> source of the project.
>>
>>
>> I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
>> with that discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
>> seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
>> even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
>> community).
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> > As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
>>>> > review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
>>>> > re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
>>> instructions)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository
>>>> URL:
>>>> >
>>>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
>>>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
>>>> > .
>>>> > It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
>>>> provider
>>>> > implementation.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
>>>> start with contributions.
>>>
>>>
>>> From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
>>> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> > > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> > > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
>>>> > > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at this
>>> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Duane
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Clebert Suconic
>
>
>
> --
> Clebert Suconic



--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

Jim Gomes
Yes, I would object. It's not a simple thing as there are many downstream
dependencies on the Subversion repository. Although, anyone is free to use
Git as their own front-end to a Subversion repository if they prefer
working with Git toolset.

Normally, a CLA (Contributor License Agreement) is determined at the time
of the contribution.  It's usually only required for very large
contributions of original code. Since this may be an amalgamation of
third-party projects, it's unclear yet as to whether a CLA would be
required in this case.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 3:20 PM Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> would anyone object if I open a request on Infra to convert it to git?
>
>
> Also: since Duane will start as a contributor, and it is expected to
> send a considerable amount of contributions, should him sign up the
> contributors agreement?
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Clebert Suconic
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
> >
> >
> > but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
> >
> >
> > Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
> > more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Clebert Suconic
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> how I would do regarding legal:
> >>
> >>
> >> i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
> >>
> >>
> >> And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
> >> referencing the JIRA.
> >>
> >>
> >> Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
> >> source of the project.
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
> >> with that discussion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
> >> seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
> >> even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
> >> community).
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>> Thanks for the feedback.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <
> [hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> > As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a
> quick
> >>>> > review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
> >>>> > re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
> >>> instructions)?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the
> repository
> >>>> URL:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
> >>>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
> >>>> > .
> >>>> > It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
> >>>> provider
> >>>> > implementation.
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
> >>>> start with contributions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
> >>> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> > > you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> > > Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you
> have
> >>>> > > any ideas for the initial implementation already?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at
> this
> >>> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Duane
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Clebert Suconic
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Clebert Suconic
>
>
>
> --
> Clebert Suconic
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

tabish121@gmail.com
In reply to this post by clebertsuconic
On 02/15/2017 06:19 PM, Clebert Suconic wrote:
> would anyone object if I open a request on Infra to convert it to git?

This would require a separate discussion thread to gain consensus on the
conversion.  While I'd wholeheartedly agree that they should move to git
as they are the only ActiveMQ projects that aren't there yet there was
resistance in the past to this from other contributors so please start a
discussion first.  As an aside it actually is possible to have an svn
based project mirrored on github if you ask infra

>
> Also: since Duane will start as a contributor, and it is expected to
> send a considerable amount of contributions, should him sign up the
> contributors agreement?



>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Clebert Suconic
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
>>
>>
>> but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
>>
>>
>> Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
>> more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Clebert Suconic
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> how I would do regarding legal:
>>>
>>>
>>> i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>>>
>>>
>>> And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
>>> referencing the JIRA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
>>> source of the project.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
>>> with that discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
>>> seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
>>> even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
>>> community).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a quick
>>>>>> review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
>>>>>> re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>>>> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
>>>> instructions)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the repository
>>>>> URL:
>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
>>>>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
>>>>> provider
>>>>>> implementation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
>>>>> start with contributions.
>>>>
>>>>  From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
>>>> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you have
>>>>>>> any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>>>> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at this
>>>> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Duane
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Clebert Suconic
>>
>>
>> --
>> Clebert Suconic
>
>


--
Tim Bish
twitter: @tabish121
blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/

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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

tabish121@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Jim Gomes
On 02/15/2017 06:26 PM, Jim Gomes wrote:
> Yes, I would object. It's not a simple thing as there are many downstream
> dependencies on the Subversion repository. Although, anyone is free to use
> Git as their own front-end to a Subversion repository if they prefer
> working with Git toolset.
I'm not sure that is technically enough of a reason to not move the
repos to git as the ActiveMQ project is an independent entity from those
downstream users.

>
> Normally, a CLA (Contributor License Agreement) is determined at the time
> of the contribution.  It's usually only required for very large
> contributions of original code. Since this may be an amalgamation of
> third-party projects, it's unclear yet as to whether a CLA would be
> required in this case.
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 3:20 PM Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> would anyone object if I open a request on Infra to convert it to git?
>>
>>
>> Also: since Duane will start as a contributor, and it is expected to
>> send a considerable amount of contributions, should him sign up the
>> contributors agreement?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Clebert Suconic
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
>>>
>>>
>>> but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
>>> more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Clebert Suconic
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> how I would do regarding legal:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i would create a JIRA on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And I would follow up with a [DISCUSS] thread on the dev list,
>>>> referencing the JIRA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pointing out the dependency you will include, the license and the
>>>> source of the project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't foresee any issues.. but it would be nice to have you on board
>>>> with that discussion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I really think we should convert the NMS as a github project. I have
>>>> seen more interest on projects around github these days. (TBH I don't
>>>> even remember how to use SVN, git by itself is another + on building
>>>> community).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Clebert Suconic <
>> [hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:03 PM Jim Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> As you point out, the licensing seems to be compatible, but maybe a
>> quick
>>>>>>> review from Apache legal might be a good idea since the intent is to
>>>>>>> re-integrate it into the NMS codebase as an official project.
>>>>> Would you be able to explain how I'd do this (or refer me to some
>>>>> instructions)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The NMS code is in Subversion, and not in Git.  Here is the
>> repository
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/activemq/activemq-dotnet/
>>>>>> Apache.NMS.AMQP/trunk
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> It does not need to be ported to Git in order to create a new AMQP
>>>>>> provider
>>>>>>> implementation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would make it easier to contribute thought. PRs is a perfect way to
>>>>>> start with contributions.
>>>>>
>>>>>  From my point of view we wouldn't strictly require a conversion to git.
>>>>> But I agree PR's would simplify reviews and contributions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you could also include ActiveMQ Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>>> I agree it makes sense to add Artemis to the list of brokers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you have an idea on how much effort it would take...  do you
>> have
>>>>>>>> any ideas for the initial implementation already?
>>>>> One of my colleagues, Chris Morgan has spent more time than I have at
>> this
>>>>> stage scoping the effort.  We think this will likely take a few months.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Duane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Clebert Suconic
>>
>>
>> --
>> Clebert Suconic
>>


--
Tim Bish
twitter: @tabish121
blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/

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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

Robbie Gemmell
In reply to this post by dpauls
On 14 February 2017 at 19:32, Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm relatively new to the ActiveMQ community, but I've been watching this
> list for the last little while and would like to propose some rework to the
> NMS.AMQP API.
>
> I'm interested in any feedback you folks may have.  Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> NMS.AMQP REWORK PROPOSAL
>
>
> Abstract
>
> A pure .NET implementation of NMS[1] using the AMQP .NET Lite API[2].
>
>
> Proposal
>
> This proposal is to rework the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP codebase in order to
> achieve:
> 1. A pure .NET implementation of the NMS API using the AMQP 1.0[3]
> wireline protocol as a transport. To do this, the AMQP .NET Lite API
> will be used.
> 2. Interoperability with other APIs following the AMQP JMS Mapping
> Specification[4], namely Qpid JMS[5].
> 3. Interoperability via AMQP 1.0 brokers such as ActiveMQ[6], the Qpid
> C++ broker[7], and the Qpid broker for Java[8].
>
> While we would be open to alternate approaches, we propose starting work
> on a development branch within the ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP repository[9], then
> replace the contents of the trunk with the branch when the branch has
> reached an appropriate level of maturity.
>
> There are two major components changing:
> 1. The underlying transport API providing AMQP capabilities.
> 2. The mapping between the NMS API and the underlying AMQP API.
>
> Therefore, there is little of the existing implementation that could be
> reused. Hence the proposal is replace the implementation rather than
> refactor it.
>
>
> Background
>
> AMQP 1.0[3] is a standard wireline protocol. There are already open
> source APIs that expose native AMQP 1.0 concepts directly:
> 1. Apache Qpid Proton[10], which is available for a number of different
> languages.
> 2. AMQP .Net Lite[2], which is a pure .NET API implementation. AMQP .Net
> Lite is not an Apache project, but it is licensed under the Apache 2.0
> license.
>
> There are also open source APIs that implement other messaging APIs, and
> map the APIs concepts to the AMQP 1.0 protocol. Examples of such APIs
> are:
> 1. Apache Qpid JMS[5], a JMS implementation that follows the AMQP JMS
> Mapping Specification[4].
> 2. The existing Apache ActiveMQ NMS.AMQP[9], an NMS implementation using
> .NET-wrapped native code, and using a different API to protocol mapping
> than Qpid JMS.
>
>
> Rationale
>
> AMQP 1.0[3] is an attractive technology choice for deploying middleware
> solutions. As a standardized protocol, it offers operational flexibility
> for middleware solutions. For example, if it is desired change the AMQP
> 1.0 provider, this is much more readily achieved with minimal impact to
> applications compared to changing a provider when applications use a
> vendor-specific API and/or protocol.
>
> Many software architects and developers are familiar with topic and
> queue based messaging. The prevalence of Message Oriented Middleware
> offerings such as IBM MQ, Amazon Simple Queue Service, and JMS
> demonstrate this. In addition, .NET is a very popular software
> framework. However, AMQP 1.0 is a relative newcomer to the middleware
> marketspace. A vibrant ecosystem of open source APIs is seen as a vital
> component to the future success of the technology.
>
> Therefore, an NMS API using AMQP 1.0 is an important piece of the AMQP
> 1.0 ecosystem. Implementing pure .NET libraries will make it easier to
> deploy solutions. By using a standardized API to protocol mapping,
> greater interoperability will be achieved. Overall, this project seeks
> to make AMQP 1.0 more accessible to architects and developers. This API
> complements rather than competes with APIs such as Qpid Proton and AMQP
> .NET Lite, both excellent options for those wishing to embrace AMQP 1.0
> messaging paradigm directly.
>
>
> External Dependencies
>
> There are two external dependencies for this project:
> 1. NMS[1], an Apache project.
> 2. AMQP .NET Lite[2], an open source project licensed under the Apache
> 2.0 license.
>
> Since both dependencies use an Apache license, there are no issues with
> respect to the licensing of the project's dependencies.
>
>
> References
>
> [1] Apache ActiveMQ NMS API: http://activemq.apache.org/nms/
> [2] AMQP .NET Lite API: https://github.com/Azure/amqpnetlite/
> [3] AMQP Version 1.0:
>   http://docs.oasis-open.org/amqp/core/v1.0/amqp-core-complete-v1.0.pdf
> [4] AMQP JMS Mapping Version 1.0:
>   https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/56418/
> [5] Apache Qpid JMS: https://qpid.apache.org/components/jms/
> [6] Apache ActiveMQ: http://activemq.apache.org/
> [7] Apache Qpid C++ Broker:
>   http://qpid.apache.org/components/cpp-broker/index.html
> [8] Apache Qpid Broker for Java:
>   http://qpid.apache.org/components/java-broker/index.html
> [9] Existing Apache NMS.AMQP Repository:
>   http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/activemq/activemq-dotnet/Apache.NMS.AMQP/
> [10] Apache Qpid Proton: http://qpid.apache.org/proton/
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Duane

I think the proposal sounds good. A native .NET impl based around AMQP
.NET Lite would seem an obvious improvement over the old NMS.AMQP
bits, which I don't think were ever released and haven't been updated
in some time either way.

I'll reply on the other thread regarding the repository discussion.

Robbie
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

cmorgan
In reply to this post by clebertsuconic
Hello,

I'll be working with Duane on the API rework.

clebertsuconic wrote
This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal


but I think just the JIRA should be enough.


Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
As a start, I have created Legal JIRA for the dependency on AMQP .Net Lite Library, https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-292.

Chris Morgan
Chris Morgan
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

John D. Ament-2
Hey,

So I saw the legal question, but only briefly looked at this thread (have
never had to deal with messaging with .NET apps yet..)
I'm just wondering, AMQPNETLITE is published on nuget.  Does NMS need to
import the source code from it, or can you rely on the nuget dependency?

John

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:48 PM cmorgan <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'll be working with Duane on the API rework.
>
>
> clebertsuconic wrote
> > This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
> >
> >
> > but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
> >
> >
> > Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
> > more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
>
> As a start, I have created Legal JIRA for the dependency on AMQP .Net Lite
> Library, https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-292.
>
> Chris Morgan
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://activemq.2283324.n4.nabble.com/DISCUSS-Rework-NMS-AMQP-tp4721986p4722171.html
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
I believe it will be just like the blog I posted. It's really not required
to redistribute.



On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 10:26 PM John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hey,
>
> So I saw the legal question, but only briefly looked at this thread (have
> never had to deal with messaging with .NET apps yet..)
> I'm just wondering, AMQPNETLITE is published on nuget.  Does NMS need to
> import the source code from it, or can you rely on the nuget dependency?
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:48 PM cmorgan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'll be working with Duane on the API rework.
> >
> >
> > clebertsuconic wrote
> > > This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
> > >
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
> > >
> > >
> > > but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
> > > more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
> >
> > As a start, I have created Legal JIRA for the dependency on AMQP .Net
> Lite
> > Library, https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-292.
> >
> > Chris Morgan
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://activemq.2283324.n4.nabble.com/DISCUSS-Rework-NMS-AMQP-tp4721986p4722171.html
> > Sent from the ActiveMQ - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
>
--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

clebertsuconic
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:42 PM Clebert Suconic <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I believe it will be just like the blog I posted. It's really not required
> to redistribute.
>


For reference

https://blogs.apache.org/activemq/entry/using-net-libraries-with-activemq





>
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 10:26 PM John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> So I saw the legal question, but only briefly looked at this thread (have
> never had to deal with messaging with .NET apps yet..)
> I'm just wondering, AMQPNETLITE is published on nuget.  Does NMS need to
> import the source code from it, or can you rely on the nuget dependency?
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:48 PM cmorgan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'll be working with Duane on the API rework.
> >
> >
> > clebertsuconic wrote
> > > This is actually the list you should follow up with the question:
> > >
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal
> > >
> > >
> > > but I think just the JIRA should be enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > Other guys here will have more experience on that.. they may provide
> > > more information, but that's what I would do.. open the LEGAL JIRA.
> >
> > As a start, I have created Legal JIRA for the dependency on AMQP .Net
> Lite
> > Library, https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-292.
> >
> > Chris Morgan
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://activemq.2283324.n4.nabble.com/DISCUSS-Rework-NMS-AMQP-tp4721986p4722171.html
> > Sent from the ActiveMQ - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
>
> --
> Clebert Suconic
>
--
Clebert Suconic
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

dpauls
In reply to this post by John D. Ament-2
On Feb 17, 2017 10:26 PM, "John D. Ament" <[hidden email]> wrote:


I'm just wondering, AMQPNETLITE is published on nuget.  Does NMS need to
import the source code from it, or can you rely on the nuget dependency?


Right, Chris could confirm, but I think he is going to be creating an MS
Visual Studio project with the NuGet dependency.  So there's no need to
distribute it directly, but the end user would be required to install it in
order to build or run.

Cheers,
Duane
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

Jim Gomes
I would prefer if this can also be built on Linux, and not just be a
Windows only solution. Having Visual Studio do a NuGet dependency seems
like it will require Visual Studio and only work on Windows.

Does NuGet work without Visual Studio?


On Sat, Feb 18, 2017, 6:10 AM Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 2017 10:26 PM, "John D. Ament" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I'm just wondering, AMQPNETLITE is published on nuget.  Does NMS need to
> import the source code from it, or can you rely on the nuget dependency?
>
>
> Right, Chris could confirm, but I think he is going to be creating an MS
> Visual Studio project with the NuGet dependency.  So there's no need to
> distribute it directly, but the end user would be required to install it in
> order to build or run.
>
> Cheers,
> Duane
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Rework NMS.AMQP

John D. Ament-2
In reply to this post by dpauls
On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 9:10 AM Duane Pauls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 2017 10:26 PM, "John D. Ament" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I'm just wondering, AMQPNETLITE is published on nuget.  Does NMS need to
> import the source code from it, or can you rely on the nuget dependency?
>
>
> Right, Chris could confirm, but I think he is going to be creating an MS
> Visual Studio project with the NuGet dependency.  So there's no need to
> distribute it directly, but the end user would be required to install it in
> order to build or run.
>
>
Ok, I'll wait for Chris' confirmation, but if its the case that you're just
declaring a dependency on the project, then its not an issue.  However, the
JIRA ticket uses the term "incorporated directly" which implies (at least
to me) that the source code is being imported to your repository, but that
doesn't sound like what's being done.

At the end of the day, its a Cat-A dependency.


> Cheers,
> Duane
>
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